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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2009, 10:05 
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This is just a first impression type review. I'll add more info when I play more with it.

I used to play with Ebenholz VII for a little while, but sold it during my trip to China (since people there really liked the texture of my E VII blade). Then using that money (with a fair bit extra), I bought a 2nd hand Photino (pretty new) and a brand new ZhangYiNing ZLC.

Yesterday was the first day I played TT since coming back to Australia. I tried Photino first (as I was interested in how the pure zl fibre feels), but found it was way too soft compared to Ebenholz. The ball generated by Photino can be really spinny, but it lacks the power that I was used to. I only had a few hits with it and felt it didn't suit my style. So I switched to ZLC.

The reason I bought ZLC was because I think Ebenholz and ZLC should be parallel comparisons after speed glue ban. However, the feelings of these two blades are totally different. Here's a quick comparison between the two:

Rubber: T05 and Joola Express One

Feeling: ZhangYiNing ZLC is much much softer (but significantly harder than Photino).

Power: Ebenholz 7 is more powerful IMO. E7 sweet spot is larger (which is very interesting to know as you would imagine carbon blade should have larger sweet spot). With ZYN ZLC, you have to hit the right place)

Loop: ZYN ZLC definitely wins, but you do need to mix a bit to 'hit' into the loops, otherwise it can be slow. Both Express 1 and T05 loop fine. However, it was the 1st time I used T05 and I didn't find T05 to be as magically spinny as some people described.

Blocks: both rule! Ebenholz is better at blocking really heavy/powerful loops, where blade can still be kept in an open angle. Where ZYN ZLC is better at blocking fast loops (if that makes sense) and can counter hit easily.

Chop/push: well, this is a hard one to compare. I never had t05 on ebenholz. But I kept on pushing into the net with T05 on ZYN ZLC. I had to deliberately lift the ball a bit when others push back.

Lifting bottom spins: ZYN ZLC rules, never made so easy...

Overall: Ebenholz feels like to be more for hitters, where ZYN ZLC can do both (hitting can be a bit disappointing if you don't hit in the center).

I feel like ZLC should work better with harder sponge (maybe because I'm used to Ebenholz). I'm replacing Joola Express 1 with Stiga Boost TP tonight to try it out. As mentioned before, I couldn't feel the magically difference of T05, but I'll stick to it for a little while and see whether it impresses me.




Comment updated 20090827:
After I had more hits with this set up, I must change my comment re T05 on ZYN ZLC FH. The problem I had was due to the fact that I'm too used to the short contact time with Ebenholz VII. The stroke stype I had was too control oriented (i.e. hit it quick and mind the directions more than spin/power). With T05 on ZYN ZLC, I had to 'hit' more to generate the power and mechenical spin. So let the bat 'bite' the ball then throw it out. Boost TP on backhand is good as it's fast and relatively spinny for the smaller swing from BH. T05 was spinny on BH but really lacks a bit of power. TP was good for flicks, but needs extra attention when lifting bottom spins.

This new set up also got me started working on my foot work (which has been c**p), as I had to be in the right position to do more forward loops for the damage (compared to the half side loops when I'm not well positioned).

I may try Gambler Outlaw 2.0 on BH at a later stage. T05 on FH and Boost TP on BH do the job for now.

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Last edited by 5min on 29 Aug 2009, 17:24, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2009, 16:51 
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Ebenholz VII is a seven-ply, correct?

Is the Zhang Yining ZLC a seven-ply ZLC? Did they put the ZLC layer deeper into the blade?

Do you have pictures? :)

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2009, 17:36 
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E7 is 7 ply
ZYN ZLC is 5wood + 2 carbon

This forum doesn't seem to allow attachment.

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2009, 17:39 
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Yuzuki wrote:
Ebenholz VII is a seven-ply, correct?

Is the Zhang Yining ZLC a seven-ply ZLC? Did they put the ZLC layer deeper into the blade?

Do you have pictures? :)


I just realise that you use Photino. What rubber do you put onto it? I can't seem to generate enough power with it.

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2009, 18:26 
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5min wrote:
Yuzuki wrote:
Ebenholz VII is a seven-ply, correct?

Is the Zhang Yining ZLC a seven-ply ZLC? Did they put the ZLC layer deeper into the blade?

Do you have pictures? :)


I just realise that you use Photino. What rubber do you put onto it? I can't seem to generate enough power with it.


Hello, you can try putting some pictures in Photobucket or other image hosting sites, then link them here using the IMG function when posting.

I tried the Photino with a Tenergy 25 (friend's) and Blue Whale II (mine). Both work fine. Tenergy 25 is bouncy on this frame, however...haven't tried it more than 15 minutes on friend's bat, though.

It's nice to find something which works with hard Chinese rubbers. :)

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2009, 18:34 
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Image
alright, let's see whether this turns out OK.

Btw, wrt to the carbon layer. I can't really see whether it's deeper, but the feel is really soft, therefore carbon layers being deeper make sense.

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2009, 18:36 
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Yuzuki wrote:
5min wrote:
Yuzuki wrote:
It's nice to find something which works with hard Chinese rubbers. :)

btw, how well is blue whale II lasting? I'm assuming you are using the pre-tuned version?

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2009, 18:40 
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Ah, indeed. Two layers of wood before the ZLC layer.

Nice picture!

Blue Whale II lasts me a month. I'm assuming it's the same for the untuned version, because I'm using the tuned one.

But it you are using Tenergy, you don't find Photino fast? Or do you not find Tenergy to be springy? What rubber were you using before this particular bat?

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2009, 22:52 
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Yuzuki wrote:
Ah, indeed. Two layers of wood before the ZLC layer.

Nice picture!

Blue Whale II lasts me a month. I'm assuming it's the same for the untuned version, because I'm using the tuned one.

But it you are using Tenergy, you don't find Photino fast? Or do you not find Tenergy to be springy? What rubber were you using before this particular bat?

I guess the issue I'm having is to do with "power".
I was using Ebenholz with Express Two on FH and Stiga Boost TP on BH. It's not as flexible as the current combination (or with Photino), but it does give enough power, while looping and smashing.
I'm a bit disappointed with Tenergy. I tried to have it on FH, but it's too slow, so I use Stiga Boost TP on FH for looping.

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2009, 23:24 
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5min wrote:
I guess the issue I'm having is to do with "power".
I was using Ebenholz with Express Two on FH and Stiga Boost TP on BH. It's not as flexible as the current combination (or with Photino), but it does give enough power, while looping and smashing.
I'm a bit disappointed with Tenergy. I tried to have it on FH, but it's too slow, so I use Stiga Boost TP on FH for looping.


Ah. That explains many things -- especially the Photino and ZLC speed issues. Sad to hear that you're disappointed with Tenergy, but it is true that different strokes, different folks.

How about trying either Express Two or Express One on the Photino/Zhang Yining ZLC? Seeing that you already have Express Two, better try before buying!

How's the Boost TP for you on the forehand for the meantime?

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2009, 09:54 
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Yuzuki wrote:
5min wrote:
I guess the issue I'm having is to do with "power".
I was using Ebenholz with Express Two on FH and Stiga Boost TP on BH. It's not as flexible as the current combination (or with Photino), but it does give enough power, while looping and smashing.
I'm a bit disappointed with Tenergy. I tried to have it on FH, but it's too slow, so I use Stiga Boost TP on FH for looping.


Ah. That explains many things -- especially the Photino and ZLC speed issues. Sad to hear that you're disappointed with Tenergy, but it is true that different strokes, different folks.

How about trying either Express Two or Express One on the Photino/Zhang Yining ZLC? Seeing that you already have Express Two, better try before buying!

How's the Boost TP for you on the forehand for the meantime?


I might try some Chinese rubber on Photino before I give up on it. Any recommendations?

I had express one on my FH with ZLC and just changed to Boost TP last night. TP is better for me as it has harder sponge. But I'm still getting used to the strokes at the moment since I need to put more forward swing to compensate the 'power' loss compared to Ebenholz. I wouldn't even try Express two on FH after feeling the harder version (Express one). I'll stick to T05 on BH for a little more while as the spin is good. I can lift bottom spins on my backhand easily (provided they are not too fast and too long) and often do a killer shot on opponent's bottom spin serves. Pure backhand hitting with T05 (away from table) is disappointing, the ball just 'floats' over with minimal threat.

It is true that equipment performs differently for different people. A friend, who is in his early 20s and used to be in Chinese provincial team, really liked T05 on FH. He's own set up is like two half dead hurricane 3 (not neo version) on a pure wood blade. I can barely hit with it. He can loop OK with T05 on ZLC with his huge swing. In fact he prefers T05 on FH to Boost TP as TP's throw was too low for him. However, he still prefer my old Ebenholz as he thinks the feeling is much better that he had the skills to control it properly.

The next thing I'm going to do, after staying on the current set up, is to try Gambler Outlaw on FH. See on that performs.

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2009, 10:10 
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I think you will like both the performance (at least hitting and fast looping) and the price of Outlaw.

Kinda sounds like you are a candidate to use Juic Varaites on FH.

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2009, 10:13 
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Der_Echte wrote:
I think you will like both the performance (at least hitting and fast looping) and the price of Outlaw.

Kinda sounds like you are a candidate to use Juic Varaites on FH.

Hi Der_Echte. What's "Juic Varaites"? Care to share a link? Thanks.

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2009, 10:23 
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5min wrote:
It is true that equipment performs differently for different people. A friend, who is in his early 20s and used to be in Chinese provincial team, really liked T05 on FH. He's own set up is like two half dead hurricane 3 (not neo version) on a pure wood blade. I can barely hit with it. He can loop OK with T05 on ZLC with his huge swing. In fact he prefers T05 on FH to Boost TP as TP's throw was too low for him. However, he still prefer my old Ebenholz as he thinks the feeling is much better that he had the skills to control it properly.

The next thing I'm going to do, after staying on the current set up, is to try Gambler Outlaw on FH. See on that performs.


If you didn't like the feel of your friend's bat (Chinese rubber and all-wood blade), Photino with Chinese rubber is similar to that, so better skip that. :)

For the Juic Varites, here's two pieces to read: http://juic.oneofakindtrading.com.au/JUIC-Varites.php, http://www.tabletennisdb.com/table-tenn ... ic-varites.

For Gambler, two reads on the OOAK Forum: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=6624, viewtopic.php?f=44&t=8113. The first one is a very long read, much information about that Outlaw rubber there.

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2009, 17:10 
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Yuzuki wrote:
5min wrote:
It is true that equipment performs differently for different people. A friend, who is in his early 20s and used to be in Chinese provincial team, really liked T05 on FH. He's own set up is like two half dead hurricane 3 (not neo version) on a pure wood blade. I can barely hit with it. He can loop OK with T05 on ZLC with his huge swing. In fact he prefers T05 on FH to Boost TP as TP's throw was too low for him. However, he still prefer my old Ebenholz as he thinks the feeling is much better that he had the skills to control it properly.

The next thing I'm going to do, after staying on the current set up, is to try Gambler Outlaw on FH. See on that performs.


If you didn't like the feel of your friend's bat (Chinese rubber and all-wood blade), Photino with Chinese rubber is similar to that, so better skip that. :)

For the Juic Varites, here's two pieces to read: http://juic.oneofakindtrading.com.au/JUIC-Varites.php, http://www.tabletennisdb.com/table-tenn ... ic-varites.

For Gambler, two reads on the OOAK Forum: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=6624, viewtopic.php?f=44&t=8113. The first one is a very long read, much information about that Outlaw rubber there.


Thanks for the links, mate. I personally haven't heard Juic Varites. I was gonna try JO Platin if Outlaw doesn't work. From the reviews, Varites sound more like a control rubber. I'd assume it's tensor rubber too?

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